E47: The VIP Café Show with Debbie and Greg - Building Bridges Through the Power of Shared Narratives

Have you ever wondered what truly connects us as human beings? This week, Debbie Larson and Greg Smith, discuss Retired Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann's knowledge to uncover the intricate tapestry of human connection through storytelling. With Scott's insight into the M-E-S-S-S of our nature—our search for meaning seeking, emotional landscapes, social bonds, and storytelling prowess, and struggles—we traverse the emotional undercurrents that drive every decision and conversation. Our exchange highlights how these threads are woven into our lives, from personal interactions to grander social dynamics.

Struggle, an experience as common as the air we breathe, is a profound connector in our journey. We share a poignant narrative about a student's tragic loss, which steers our dialogue into the realms of empathy and understanding. By embracing our vulnerabilities, we discuss how we can relate to one another and build bridges of rapport. Through the lens of adversity, we see that our shared experiences, no matter how varied in magnitude, speak a universal language that calls for empathy and a supportive community.

As we wrap up our conversation, the role of government and its delicate dance with individual agency takes center stage. We reflect on California's policies, the boundaries between societal support and personal responsibility, and how cultural values are vital to balancing this complex relationship. Finally, we consider the importance of dealing with our challenges without transferring the weight onto others and how this resilience shapes our societal fabric. Join us in this compelling narrative journey, where we shine a light on the power of our shared stories and the essence of what it means to be human.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:06

Welcome to the VIP Cafe Show. My name is Debbie Larson.

Speaker 1: 0:11

And I'm Greg Smith.

Speaker 2: 0:13

And if you're thinking that something's a little backwards, you would be correct.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Yes.

Speaker 2: 0:17

We just wanted to throw you guys off, for a minute, just a little bit.

Speaker 2: 0:21

So today we are going to have a fantastic conversation because this is something that affects everyone, every single person, whether you like it or not, whether you have the humility to admit that you need connection and you need community. But the thing is sometimes it doesn't like you would think that it happens by accident or just naturally because it's so natural to us. But it doesn't. And I just heard about, I hear stories all the time about these kids who are, who don't know how to connect.

Speaker 1: 0:51

So this is on my mind today it's interesting, I befriended a gentleman named Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann. He's a former Green Beret. He's retired now.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:01

And you might've caught him on Fox News. He's a good friend of mine. I've been friends with him. Wow, probably close to 10 years now. Okay, and he defines human beings as a mess, m-e-s-s. Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Of course we are.

Speaker 1: 1:14

But what that stands for is M stands for meaning, seeking, meaning seeking that, and that's not logic, by the way. Meaning seeking means meaning what's. What kind of value does that have to me? Okay, from your perspective.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Okay, so understand when you're speaking with people, when you're trying to connect with people, understand they're trying to find meaning. What does this? How does this relate to me?

Speaker 2: 1:37

What's it?

Speaker 1: 1:38

mean to me. Second thing is emotional M-E emotional. Okay, we are emotional creatures. Everything we do is emotional. Everything, every decision you make is emotional. Yeah, and I'll be blown away because every year I have the honors class at West.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:56

I'll say we're emotional creatures and we don't make decisions in logic. Yeah and they go. That's bull crap, were you oh yeah, they were like no, I do go, that's bullcrap we. I oh, yeah they were like no, I do all my research. I make sure all my research is sound. I said wow, and what is sound?

Speaker 2: 2:10

is that an emotion, or is that? What is that? Wow?

Speaker 1: 2:11

even though you do your research, you have to do it. So you feel right. You've been trained that the meaning of deep research gives you confidence, gives you security, gives you safety, which are all emotions, hello. So everything we do, every decision we make, if your amygdala shuts down, which is your emotional part of your brain, if that shuts down. You can't make a decision.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Okay, I heard about this. There's a very rare disease where or not disease, but something condition that people there's a certain part of their brain where they can't feel emotions. It's very rare and they put them in the middle of a grocery store and they cannot figure out what to buy and they can't be in a.

Speaker 1: 2:51

it's very difficult to be in a relationship too, because you can't make any decisions, you don't, you just you are. Your amygdala filters everything here in feel.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Yeah. Through that amygdala and it decides whether there's the emotional context is at a level where you pay attention. What was that's crazy? You know? What surprises me the most is that your honor students are surprised by that like that.

Speaker 1: 3:17

Really just hit me, I think I, when the first time I heard it, I think I was caught guard. I always thought my speeches have to be about content. Yeah, they don't. The content is absolutely important. Listeners don't think content's not important.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Right, it's extremely important.

Speaker 1: 3:34

However, it's unrelatable or meaning-seeking if you don't put your contextual view on it. The context of how you see it as the speaker is more important than the context itself. Even though the context is extremely important If you don't have. We relate to what you're saying through the context of your eyes, through your experience. I will buy a product because you are excited about it, not because you tell me I should be excited about it.

Speaker 2: 4:04

Wow.

Speaker 1: 4:05

Right, wow, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1: 4:08

So we're meaning-seeking, emotional, social creatures. We're social. We were put on this planet. Do we have fangs? No. Do we have armor no. Are we as strong as a gorilla? No. Can we run fast as a cheetah? Can we run fast as a cheetah? No. Can we climb trees like monkeys? No.

Speaker 2: 4:25

Right we can't.

Speaker 1: 4:26

We can't do any of those things.

Speaker 1: 4:28

However, we can work together in twos, fours, sixes, eights, all the way up to thousands, to millions, and when we work together, not a species on this planet can defeat us. Wow, that's what makes us strong. So we are ingrained as human beings to be social. We want to connect. So when you get up in front of people to speak, know they want to connect with you, no matter what you think they want to connect. They're not there to throw tomatoes at you, they're there to connect with you. Connect so you have meaning seeking.

Speaker 2: 5:01

You have emotional social storytelling.

Speaker 1: 5:04

We're storytelling creatures. Everything in your life, everything is a story. Every word you use in English vocabulary has a story behind it. Everything, yeah, and that's why I think and I don't have this proven but that's why I think it's so difficult to learn other languages, because we don't have stories behind those words. They're just words and we have to think in English to get the words, to get the story behind the words, so we understand what it means.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Got it.

Speaker 1: 5:29

But when you see a person, you'll play out a story like what would happen this, what would happen that when you get to go, like you're going to go to a speech? You start to play a story of what can happen. Everything is narrative in your brain. Your brain's a narrative brain. Before there was language, there was cave drawings.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Hello, they drew in cave drawings because they drew in stories.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Every cave drawing is a story, so we're story creatures and the last one is the biggest one, I think the most important one to get your head around. We all struggle. I don't care if you think the wealthiest, most put together person in the world, doesn't struggle.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:07

And the poorest absolutely struggles 10 times more than that person. That's not true. We all struggle and whether it's a broken nail, it's the end of your day.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Or you just wrecked your brand new Mercedes, right, yeah, it's a struggle, it is Right. And some people will walk away from that and say I'll get another one. Other people like their broken nail, they like, oh, they scream at their, they kick their dog, they scream at their husband. They slam the doors. They can't believe they just broke a nail yeah, so we're all struggling, and and we're all struggling in some way that's how we're relatable.

Speaker 1: 6:39

You relate to other people because of your struggles and they know you're struggling and you share your scars. When you get up on that stage, you think I've got to be perfect, I've got to be polished. Everybody looks at you and goes what are you going to do for me?

Speaker 1: 6:51

right, you're not human, that's you're not struggling unless you show me the scars you have and why you don't want me to have them from your point of view, so I can put some meaning to it, so I can get some emotional depth to it, so I can connect with you socially, which means I basically am in rapport with you and you don't tell stories so I can remember it.

Speaker 2: 7:14

Yeah, interesting, and it all comes down to truly, that's amazing. It all comes down to connection and the thing is as if. Okay, this is one of the reasons it's fresh on my brain because there's a school here in town and it's it's a school that that should have superior excellence and stuff like that. People sacrifice to send their kids to the school and one of the kids at the school this past year or this current school year committed suicide on a school morning and in retrospect there I don't want to share too much because I don't know who's listening, but the kid really wanted to fit in, the kid really.

Speaker 2: 7:57

He tried all these different things to fit in, to make connections, to really be to seen, and when the news broke that this had happened, there was such a callous response from some of the other kids in the class and it's been so on my heart because somebody needs to teach these kids, like the kid who killed himself, how to connect, because sometimes we want it so bad and there's a desperation. How to connect because sometimes we want it so bad and there's a desperation but there's not the know-how. And then you see adults and people clash into each other and they're angry and they're frustrated and they're lonely and they're isolated and they don't know how to connect to each other. So, understanding the basic, understanding yourself and understanding that other people are not so different than you, you know what I mean. And that's such a powerful thing for even parents to teach their kids that, hey, everything that you're feeling those other kids are feeling they might just not be.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Everybody struggles, everybody struggles, everybody. When you're speaking to a group, everybody has their own struggle, whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:01

They're all struggling and everybody has scars. Everybody in that room has scars yeah, yeah and it's not really what happens to you. Against which is the content right? It's the context. What do you do about it? How do you interpret it? Yeah, yeah I was taught by my father thank goodness and my mother that whatever's happening to you or you think is so horrible, it's 10 times worse for somebody else in the world and it's probably 10 times less for somebody else in the world.

Speaker 2: 9:26

But you're right, you're absolutely right. I know when I remember being a kid and seeing the kids my age begging on the streets of Mexico, that was really something. So sometimes when I think about that, I lived in New York City and I remember walking past people eating a Whopper from Burger King. I remember. I will never forget this Eating eating a Whopper from Burger King. I will never forget this Eating a Whopper. It was $6.50 just for the Whopper in New.

Speaker 2: 9:47

York City at the time and I didn't have an extra $6.50, and I wanted a Whopper. So bad. But I remember, and there was a struggle, I couldn't have a Whopper, but compared to the kids begging on the street it was not a struggle. I just didn't get a whopper.

Speaker 1: 10:10

It's like the other day I misplaced my YSU parking pass, which is anybody listening here that has one knows exactly what I'm talking about it is, and I do it for a good reason, I'm not it's just a hassle you have to go do a police report and you have to go turn in a report and you have to go get a new one, and they make it very difficult, so you pay attention to it. In fact, I'm going to duct tape an Apple tag on the back of mine now so it never happens again. However, I literally ruined my whole day and then, finally, that night, I thought to myself why don't I practice what I preach? It could be a thousand times worse.

Speaker 1: 10:42

It's just a parking pass. It might take me a half a day to get it rectified and maybe a little bit of embarrassment. However, I'll be okay. Is it worth ruining my day? Is it worth seeing everything, but you catch yourself right. And you have to realize everybody's got something like that going on. And if you, when you're looking out in the crowd, go, hey, they're, these people are suffering somehow or another they're suffering. They might have a kid that doesn't listen to them, they might have a parent that's dying or sick.

Speaker 1: 11:12

They they, they might have a job, they're hoping to get a raise and or they're not being appreciated. Everybody's got something. So when you get out there, don't think, oh my gosh, all these people are so much better than me or whatever. Here's another thing, debbie when you get out on the stage or you go to talk, it's not about you, it's about the people out there. Yeah, and here's what's cool about that. They love it when you share who you are and your perspectives Not telling them, not showing them, but sharing with them.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Okay, if I say to you, let's say this purified water from acme company yeah there are lots of minerals in there that shouldn't be in there and that water should be tested. And that's what I think versus. I went to go get a bottle of acne water and I thought, man, I don't want to be putting something in my body that could later on I'd regret so I always test the water to make sure what it's got in it. That's just me right now. Which one's more powerful?

Speaker 2: 12:21

the second one. The second one because you're gonna go. Maybe I should test my water.

Speaker 1: 12:25

I don't tell you to do it Okay. I tell you how I feel, and then you can make your own decisions. Now, of course, we have to do an exception for Canada. If you're in Canada, we have to tell you what to do.

Speaker 2: 12:37

I understand it's so funny because I used to go up to Canada and farm. I am such a rabbit trail person but I used to go up to canada on this in the summers to help farm and oh, I loved cutting wheat it was alfalfa, but I love that, but anyway.

Speaker 2: 12:50

So, talking to some of the canadians, they used to say you americans are so opinionated. And you, because there was something that had happened and me and my sisters were telling this lady why don't you guys do something about this? And she there's nothing we can do. There's nothing, and I'm trying, I can't even do her accent, but there's nothing we can do. She said in in Canada, it just is the way you like to go against the government, it's like to go against the crown because it's backed by England. And she said there's nothing you can do. She said you Americans are so opinionated because you have the ability to make change and people care and people it matters. But it was such a moment hearing that from a Canadian and thinking man. That's just normal for us.

Speaker 1: 13:33

And here's a great. I saw a North Korean escapee. Somebody came out and said that when we were growing up there was a picture of Kim up on the board. They said that's your father, that is your father. Your real father's not your father. That's your father, and what he says goes if your father, your biological father, goes against what your real father says you're to turn him in.

Speaker 1: 13:57

That is what we're going to. If you want to see it in a nutshell, that we're going for, the government is our parents and our parents really on our parents? Because, think about it. In california you can. If you're under the age of 18, you can go get a sex change without your parents consent, but you can't get your ears pierced what you heard me.

Speaker 1: 14:17

In california you can get a sex change and your parents can't stop you and the government pays for it, but you cannot get your ears pierced without your permission from your parents. Can't stop you, and the government pays for it, but you cannot get your ears pierced without your permission from your parents. Now, if that's not, whose daddy problem, that's a problem Now. We just went down a rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: 14:35

We did, we did. We're talking about connection and that doesn't connect us to.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Californians at all. We're like what kind of Americans are you?

Speaker 2: 14:44

It does Listen connection. If there were better connections, we wouldn't be so reliant and so quick to run to the government, stalin said. They said how do you treat these people like this and expect them to not revolt? And literally like this is documented he said bring me a chicken. So they brought him a chicken and he held the chicken tight and he start picking out the feathers of the chicken, one by one, and the chicken, of course, is like clucking and trying to get away. But he just held it tight until the chicken was bare naked and then he set the chicken down and he held out a piece of. He held out like some sort of food, like bread or something, and the chicken came hobbling over and took the bread from his hand and he said if you make a chicken feel pain, it'll come to you for food for the rest of its life. He said if you make the people feel pain, they'll come to you for food for the rest of their life. And literally that's exactly what happens In the absence of true fatherhood and families.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Everybody's busy. I find myself sometimes so busy, too busy to care right and so then all of a sudden, people are too busy, there's a disconnection, there's a need, there's a oh, I'm you know nobody to back me up. And then the government comes and says, hey, we'll be your friend. And I don't mean I'm not against the institution of government, I'm talking about the powers that want to use the government to control. They come and say, we'll be your friend, and oh yeah, no strings attached. And then, literally, it's just a matter of time before that pattern is created and people are like, oh, don't take that away, the government's my friend.

Speaker 1: 16:20

Yeah, that's happening and there's probably people listening to this podcast that think socialism is a great thing and I just want you to go show me a country that's great because they're socialist. It's never worked. Panera tried it.

Speaker 2: 16:33

Did you hear about that experiment?

Speaker 1: 16:35

No.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Panera oh, this is fantastic, guys, google this, you will find something pretty amazing. Okay, fantastic, guys, google this, you will find something pretty amazing. Okay, so, panera right, good, bread bowls, soup and stuff. They decided we're going to create these Panera cares. There was a name for it. They opened up these Paneras and it was pay what you want to pay, pay what you can, right. So they opened these stores and people could go in and if you had the money to pay, you'd pay. Of course, the do-gooders are like, oh, here I'll pay and here I'll pay extra. You could keep the change for some college student that can't. It sounds great. It sounds all very altruistic.

Speaker 2: 17:10

What happened was, by the time they closed them because it was unsustainable, only one ever came close to breaking even. They never, ever made a profit, ever came close to breaking even. They never, ever made a profit. And what happened was the people who were getting free food would come multiple times and they'd come and they'd leave trash and the restaurant would be dirty. The employees got totally worn out and what ended up happening is the people going into pay full price began feeling pressured to pay more because when they were paying full price, the person would ask them would you like to pay extra for somebody who can't afford it? So they began to feel pressured and so they stopped wanting to go because they were feeling pressured to pay in addition to a higher price that these Panera Cares were charging. The whole thing was a mess. Everybody was tired, nobody was happy, nobody was. Oh, the portions start getting smaller. Literally it was a mess. You could look it up. It was fascinating. I was like if that ain't a good social experiment.

Speaker 1: 18:15

There's another one at Denison College, and I can't remember all the specifics of it, but basically the professor said put down the grade you think you deserve.

Speaker 2: 18:28

And the kids rebelled because they wanted standards.

Speaker 1: 18:35

Wow, interesting. Yeah yeah, structure standards, values are important for us to regulate a culture. Culture is what you allow and disallow within a certain community, and if you don't have culture and you start to eliminate culture, guess what? There's somebody's. Somebody is thinking about something else, because there's always going to be a culture.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Interesting and what?

Speaker 1: 18:52

you want to do is you want to make enemies out of the people so they fight, and then you become the person with the bread feeding the chicken. Yeah, all right, yeah, that kind of went again.

Speaker 2: 19:02

we went down that rabbit hole but it all comes around, because here's the cool thing is in a place of strong connection, nobody if we have a strong family and then somebody comes and goes hey guys, if, if you follow me, I'll make things better. They're like everybody would be like. No, we're good, thanks, but in a state of disconnection and fighting one of my yeah most powerful bible verses is where envy and strife is.

Speaker 2: 19:26

There is confusion in every evil work as long when, as soon as you see confusion, you better know something bad is about to happen, right it's true, it's, yeah, it's crazy. So in so community. So going back to community, because, okay, and I'm sure you've heard of Malcolm Gladwell right, Malcolm Gladwell.

Speaker 1: 19:44

Actually, I met him once, did you really? Yes, okay, years ago, but I met him yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:48

It's interesting. I love his books. Sometimes I'll listen to a podcast or something, and just like it should be. I don't agree with everything that comes out of his mouth, but that's what open dialogue and he loves the discourse man.

Speaker 1: 20:00

He'll argue with you all day long if this ever gets into malcolm gladwell's circle.

Speaker 2: 20:03

We'd love to have you on the podcast yeah but anyway he tells a story in outliers. I believe the outliers and he talks about that community did. I'm talking about it's basically they couldn't figure out why this community didn't have any, not one episode of heart disease and at the time heart disease was above cancer as far as the number one death in males over over 50 in the united states and in this town, not one case of heart disease or death by heart disease.

Speaker 2: 20:35

And so they start looking at the diet and they were like, hey, maybe it's just. Maybe it's the diet. Nope, maybe it's their heritage, maybe it's where they came from. In it just, maybe it's the diet. Nope, maybe it's their heritage, maybe it's where they came from in Italy Nope, maybe it's the mountainous region.

Speaker 2: 20:45

So they studied the other communities around there Nope, they literally broke down every facet to try to figure out what is making these people so healthy. And you know what? It came down to the sense of community. Because they were all Italian, from a similar village in Italy, working at, I believe, the salt mines, and they all spoke Italian and they had a priest who was forward thinking and he had said why don't we become self-sustaining? So they invested in making sure that there was a butcher and a baker and stuff and on a normal day in that village you would go and you would say hello to your friends, you would whatever. There was no need to go running down to other villages to get supplies because everything was self-sustained in that village. The sense of community was so strong and literally not one case of heart disease.

Speaker 1: 21:34

Man. Again, that goes back to my point of the social. We're social creatures.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:39

We want to get along, we want to meet, but if the social norms at creatures yeah, we want to get along, we want to meet. But if the social norms at the time are saying, oh, you can't get along with that person because they said x, y and z, right, it causes separation.

Speaker 1: 21:49

if you again, if you want to destroy a culture, you want to destroy a country, you want to destroy a family, cause confusion yeah, and so when you're getting up on that stage to talk or you're talking to people, they want to connect with you, they and here's another big one that I always hear I don't embarrass myself. I guess I'm gonna tell you. I finally, somebody finally told me the statistics. You think about yourself between 87, 87.9 and 97.9% of the day.

Speaker 1: 22:24

You think about food, other people, whatever's left. We don't go to bed thinking about other people. We just don't. We don't like, oh, that person embarrassed themselves so much I can't. And oh my gosh, oh that person. We don't do that. We'll make a comment like, oh, they were embarrassed. But then we'll think how it relates to us. I'm glad it wasn't me. I'm glad it wasn't me. I'm glad it wasn't me, because that's what we're thinking.

Speaker 2: 22:48

Really Interesting.

Speaker 1: 22:58

So, when you're getting up there really the shelf, which you can't learn unless you make a miss. Take right, right. So it's a learning experience. Always look at everything for a learning experience and but if you don't get out there, if you don't jump in the pool, you'll never learn to swim yeah, so you got to get up there and you got to give it a shot and darn it yeah, you know, the more real you are, the more honest you are, the more revealing you are, the more real you are.

Speaker 1: 23:20

The more honest you are, the more revealing you are, the more relatable you are yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:23

And they always throw around that word relatability, vulnerability. Vulnerability only happens when you're relatable. So if you want to be relatable, you've got to share, not be afraid to share how you feel about things. Unresolved issues Never, ever, get on that stage and dump your garbage on other people, because people are caring, loving people and they got to take that home. And now you've burdened other people with your problems and you've multiplied that energy don't do that yeah, go talk to somebody.

Speaker 1: 23:55

Talk to a friend, yeah, and share their quarter zone levels. Yeah, you know, it's true, oh man, so we're going to thank the Havana House for allowing us to do this podcast.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Oh, it's so comfortable to have a conversation here it is it is.

Speaker 1: 24:09

It's a great place. They have your spirits any spirits you need. They have great smokes here and amazing coffee.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Yes, I love their coffee.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Yes, their coffee's amazing In fact. I'm going to get some before I leave today.

Speaker 2: 24:22

Nice. And just a shout out to Youngstown Coffee Company. They started in the back of Havana House and they recently just moved and got their own building or a new warehouse building they share with another business. But, they're growing and expanding from right here in Boardman.

Speaker 1: 24:38

That's great. Okay, deb, everybody, you have a wonderful day.

Speaker 2: 24:43

No rapid fire today.

Speaker 1: 24:44

No rapid fire today. Take care.